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« More on the Estate TAx--the Heritage Foundation speaks gobbledygook | Main | Financial INstitution Regulation--Dodd's proposals »

November 11, 2009

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» Heritage Foundation's argument against the estate tax causes a stir from Future of the Federal Estate Tax
Beach's Article On November 9, 2009, William W. Beach published an article, Seven Reasons Why Congress Should Repeal, Not Fix, the Death Tax, on the Heritage Foundation's website. This article provides seven reasons why the estate tax should be repeale... [Read More]

Comments

Michael

The heritage foundation may very well be a far right think tank, but on this issue they are not as wrong as you all think they are. Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urvkfi134Ew and then tell me that this tax does anything but line the pockets of big insurance companies and men like Warren Buffett, who I personally think has enough money.
The goal of the Estate Tax was to prevent the creation of an American aristocracy, do you all really think that has succeeded? The Kennedy clan, the Bush Clan, and others like them, the various ways lawyers have found to dodge the intended effect of the Estate Tax all to me mean that this is one tax that is ripe for repeal, as it produces very little federal income (and the tax revenue lost due to lost income tax is always an imponderable) does not succeed in its stated goal, lines the pockets of companies like AIG (that already have enough tax payer money), and basically has degenerated into a racket.
I too think that the rich should contribute their fair share, but I also think there are far more progressive and rational ways to achieve that goal than the antiquated Estate Tax.

LindaMBeale

Michael, note that the logic you are applying is--the estate tax should be good, but there are various gimmicks whereby the rich can avoid it, so gee, might as well just repeal the tax and give the rich people what they want, without any transaction costs!

The logic you should be applying is--the estate tax should be good, but there are various gimmicks whereby the rich can avoid it, so LET's REPEAL THE GIMMICKS so it isn't so easy to avoid.....

Besides which, if Congress would let the estate tax go back to the pre-2001 levels or something similar (like it is slated to do under current law), it would raise quite a bit of money annually--as one person put it, enough to fund some rather important projects (child health, rail, etc.) That's not petty cash. Even at $20 billion per year under the current emaciated form of the estate tax applicable to 2009, it is not petty cash.

LindaMBeale

Readers and Michael:

by the way, Michael didn't reveal that he is connected with the American Family Business Foundation, an anti-estate tax group.....Take his words (about wanting progressive taxation and about the "antiquated" estate tax), and his use of the populist dislike of wealthy aristocrats, with a grain of salt.

John

"Death Tax" is a very clever term cooked up by Frank Luntz. What are the only two things in life that are guaranteed? Death and taxes, so the saying goes.

Guaranteed! Everybody dies! Everybody pays!. Only it's not true about the estate tax. Only a very small percentage of heirs pays, those who inherit millions.

Dave Cribbin

Linda , your quote
" Entreprenuerialism doesn't ordinarily come from wealthy heirs to estates sitting in their effortlessly acquired empires." shows that you have missed the point in arguing for the estate tax.

No credible person is making the argument that heirs who inherit capital from their parents and grandparents are the front line entrepreneurs.
They are rightly arguing that the government confiscating capital from someone at their death reduces the amount of capital available at the margin to other entrepreneurs and thus reduces the ability of the economy to grow. Because the lack of capital always effects those who are at the margin it is the small business owner who pays the price not GE or IBM. Small businesses are the very group that are responsible for the majority of new jobs created in this country

Capital is the seed corn of economic growth, any farmer will tell you that when you start to consume the seed corn you are on the road to starvation.
All My Best
Dave

LindaMBeale

But Dave, you are missing the point. Your argument that estate taxes rightly paid on wealth accumulated during the lifetime of the decedent (which you inappropriately using a term that suggests that taxation of capital is an inappropriate taking (confiscation) rather than an appropriate taxation on wealth accumulation that may well have gone untaxed hitherto) reduces entrepreneurialism depends on several assumptions: 1) that the heirs aren't just going to leave the capital locked into the current investments--which may well be not the best allocation of resources and do nothing to help entrepreneurialism; 2) that spendthrift heirs won't just dissipate the capital in poorly managed sales/investments that do nothing to support entrepreneurialism (because they don't have the skills to invest wisely in ways that support entrepreneurialism); and 3) that the investments the heirs make will per se be a better way to invest capital that benefits entrepreneurs than the government's use of that same capital . In other words, Dave, your assumption of estate tax "support" of entrepreneurialism is just another variant of the Heritage Foundation conclusion that private investment is always good and always better than public investment. In fact, the lock-in effect with the heirs (that they may continue to keep the resources in the same investments) is likely negative in terms of supporting entrepreneurialism. The misplaced resources effect of spendthrift heirs who know nothing is likely to be a negative, whereas the government funding of needed infrastructure, etc. with government spending should have a good chance of being a wiser allocation of capital resources. Small busineses are indeed responsible for more entrepreneurialism. And there is no difference between a dollar spent by the government and a dollar spent by the undeserving heir as far as small businesses are concerned. The question is which spending is most likely to get in the hands of those that are inventive. What you are saying is that heirs will more appropriately allocate that capital than the government. I don't think so, which is why my point--that entrepreneurialism doesn't ordinarily come from wealthy heirs sitting in their effortlessly acquired estates" is an important one.

Dave Cribbin

Linda,

Again you miss my point, I am saying that the government confiscating capital by means of an Estate tax, by definition reduces the amount of Capital available in the private sector.

If there are five red balls on the table to fund business expansion and the government takes two there are only three left, some companies are not going to get the capital they need to expand , a number of the others are going to pay more for the capital they get , this is simple supply and demand stuff.You're just messing with me right?

This lack of capital shows up at the margins, again it's not GE and IBM who don't get the capital they need it's the smaller and newer businesses, the ones that create the jobs.

If you truly feel that the estate tax is so beneficial, why don't you advocate for the estate tax to be applied to every estate and that the rate be 100%?

All My Best Dave

LindaMBeale

Dave
you continue to miss the point, because you insist on asserting as though true tired old statements about private use of funding versus public use of tax monies.

Please don't use the term "confiscation"--it's simply wrong. Not to mention that it's a loaded term, intended to incite anti-estate tax views. It isn't appropriate, because taxation is not confiscation--it's the mode of paying for the many governmental services on which we all depend.

You continue to state--without support--that leaving all the money in an estate is good for growth because government use of tax monies deprives companies of money they need. That argument is deeply flawed for several reasons, including 1) the fact that leaving the money in private hands does not insure that it gets allocated to useful business needs--it may just as well end up in an offshore bank account that funds some oligarch's business in Hong Kong rather than funding some young entrepreneur's enterprise in the US; and 2) the fact that your assumption that government "takes the balls out of service" entirely misses the point that public funds are shuffled right back into the private sector in dollars paid to businesses and workers. And in many ways that may be a preferable allocation means compared to spendthrift heirs who are trying to sock their money away in Gibraltar or somewhere similar.....

Further, you are using straw man arguments. Nobody's arguing for a 100% estate tax. There are, however, strong arguments for a robust estate tax as I have outlined several times.

Your arguments for eliminating the estate tax are the tired old arguments that the wealthy have been making for centuries. Have you noticed though that countries with concentrated wealth among a very few families do not generally have broad economic growth, strong entrepreneurialism, or a decent standard of living for all their folk?

Zack

How does an argument get "tired and old"? It would seem that if there is any correlation between the age of an argument and its validity that correlation would be positive. Regardless, age is not a good way to evaluate the validity of an argument.


As to "tired", is the idea that if a valid argument is used too often it will lose much of its validity due to fatigue? More likely it is you, not the argument, that is tired of people disagreeing with you when your mind was long ago made up.


Perhaps I make too much of a figure of speech, but sometimes it can be revealing of a person's thought process.


The reality is that much of this disagreement result not from faulty arguments, but rather from differing first principles as to what constitutes fairness and justice. These concepts are hard wired in our more primitive brain structures based on long term evolution and the need for individual and collective survival. Unfortunately, as is clear to me from reading your blog, we are not all wired the same.

LindaMBeale

I tend to use the term "tired and old" to describe arguments that are reiterated over and over again without taking account of the counter-arguments. For example, the various groups supporting repeal of the estate tax have argued, over and over again, that family farms are lost to the tax or that small businesses are harmed by the tax--without even acknowledging that there isn't much evidence supporting those positions, and simply repeating the argument when it is countered with lack of evidence and some of the reasons for thinking that sales because of the estate tax could be a good thing if they did happen.

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